It’s More Than Racism: Isabel Wilkerson Explains America’s ‘Caste’ System

Enlarge this image


In her new book Caste, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Isabel Wilkerson examines the laws and practices that created what she describes as a bipolar, Black and white caste system in the United States. Above, a sign in Jackson, Miss., in May 1961.





William Lovelace/Hulton Archive/Getty Images



hide caption



toggle caption


William Lovelace/Hulton Archive/Getty Images



Author Interviews
Great Migration: The African-American Exodus North

Wilkerson’s 2010 book, The Warmth of Other Suns, focused on the great migration of African Americans from the South to the North during the 20th century. In her new book, Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents, Wilkerson says that acknowledging America’s caste system deepens our understanding of what Black people are up against in the U.S.


Interview highlights


On hearing a Nigerian-born playwright say that there are no Black people in Africa





Enlarge this image


Penguin Random House





Enlarge this image


Isabel Wilkerson won National Book Critics Circle Award for her book about the Great Migration, The Warmth of Other Suns.





Joe Henson/Penguin Random House



hide caption



toggle caption


Joe Henson/Penguin Random House



Code Switch
With Trump At The Border, A Look Back At U.S. Immigration Policy

Curating the population means deciding who gets to be a part of it and where they fit in upon entry, and so there is a tremendous effort at the end of the 19th century, the beginning of the 20th century, with the rise of eugenics and this growing belief in the gradations of humankind that they wanted to keep the population closer to what it had been at the founding of the country. And so there was an effort to restrict who could come into the country if they were not of Western European descent.

Tremendous back and forth, tremendous efforts on the part of eugenicists who then held sway in the popular imagination, tremendous effort to keep out people who we now would view as part of the dominant group. It was a form of curating who could become a part of the United States and where they would fit in, and they used immigration laws to determine who would be able to get access to that dominant group.

On why the Nazis studied American Jim Crow laws



History
Eugenics, Anti-Immigration Laws Of The Past Still Resonate Today, Journalist Says

I have to say that my focus was not initially on the Nazis themselves, but rather on how Germany has worked in the decades after the war to reconcile its history. But the deeper that I got, and the more that I looked into this, the deeper I searched, I discovered these connections that I would never have imagined.

It turned out that German eugenicists were in continuing dialogue with American eugenicists. Books by American eugenicists were big sellers in Germany in the years leading up to the Third Reich. And and then, of course, the Nazis needed no one to teach them how to hate. But what they did was they sent researchers to study America’s Jim Crow laws. They actually sent researchers to America to study how Americans had subjugated African Americans, what would be considered the subordinated caste. And they actually debated and consulted American law as they were devising the Nuremberg Laws and as they were looking at those laws in the United States.

They couldn’t understand why, from their perspective, the group that they had identified as the subordinated caste was not recognized in the United States in the same way. So that was the unusual interconnectedness that I never would have imagined.

On the Nazi reaction to America’s «one drop rule, which maintained that a person with any amount of Black blood would be considered Black

That idea of the one drop rule, that was viewed as too extreme to [the Nazis]. It was stunning to hear that. … The Nazis, in trying to create their own caste system, what could be considered a caste system, went to great lengths to really think hard about who should qualify as Aryan, because they felt that they wanted to include as many people as they possibly could, ironically enough, and as they looked at the United States, it did not make sense to them that a single drop of Black blood would make someone Black, that they could not and did not accept. And in defining and creating their own hierarchy, they ended up coming up with a different configuration that actually encompassed more people into the Aryan side than would have been considered than the equivalent would have been in the United States.

Sam Briger and Thea Chaloner produced and edited the audio of this interview. Bridget Bentz and Molly Seavy-Nesper adapted it for the Web.